The following thread is a discussion I had with a JW apologist in light of this VIDEO. As you can see from the thread, I quickly challenged this JW on the fact that Watchtower leaders prohibited organ transplants for quite some time. The problem is, lives were probably lost and/or severely impaired by those who followed the leader’s counsel. But did the Watchtower leaders ever apologize for this? See how a JW apologist responds. His words in BOLD.
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Matt.28:18-20, This is our commission.
Jesus never said to stand and listen to teachers of darkness and paganism. We know we have the truth. Knowing this, why should these women stay and listen to him preach false doctrine to them. Though it does remind me of Acts16:16-18, because of the emotional reaction he had, he wasn’t wanting to hear the Good News but to preach to the JW”s.
INQUESTOFTHETRUTH 2 weeks ago
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What did Francis Chan say that was false? And on the contrary, what did these women say that was true? That we can’t understand what the Bible teaches without 7 fallible and error-prone men in Brooklyn, NY? If that’s the case, then I guess quoting Matthew 28:18-20 and Acts 16:16-18 are useless because I apparently can have no clue what those texts mean by reading and studying it.
theapologeticfront in reply to INQUESTOFTHETRUTH 1 week ago
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I believe it’s nine fallible men and you clearly do not know how the process of deductive Bible study works in God’s organization. You seem to think you can understand the Bible without help. That’s not what is indicated by the exchange between Phillip and the eunuch. Also why would Jesus tell his disciples to preach and teach the good news if people could sit in their house and just pray for insight. The whole structure of Christianity depends on learning from others. Have a good one Mike.
INQUESTOFTHETRUTH in reply to theapologeticfront 1 week ago
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So basically, we know from the Scriptures that the Governing Body was appointed in 1919 (which apparently, JW’s don’t like to discuss). But then, I can’t even understand what the Bible says without the Governing Body. This means that I just have to accept them as the authority? Please help me understand.
theapologeticfront in reply to INQUESTOFTHETRUTH 1 week ago
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The “faithful and discreet slave” not the Governing Body directs Jehovah’s organization. I don’t mind discussing it. We all must follow someone’s human direction the Bible is clear on that. You follow some person’s interpretation of Scripture. There is “authority” somewhere and each one understands for himself through prayer, study and holy spirit whose we follow. You choose Protestantism. I can’t accept their version of truth knowing what they have done in God’s name through the years.
INQUESTOFTHETRUTH in reply to theapologeticfront 1 week ago
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Ok, so I can know the FDS is who they claim to be by reading the Bible and thinking independently apart from their interpretations? Is that what you mean by implementing prayer, study, and holy spirit?
You see, its your claim that no one can understand the Bible apart from the WT, but if that’s the case, then there’s no way to really study the Bible to find out if the WT is who they claim to be. You basically just have to accept them and their fallible interpretations. Right?
theapologeticfront in reply to INQUESTOFTHETRUTH 1 week ago
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Where are these priest right now? It does say “always” and it certainly isn’t the Jews. Are you one of these priests and kings that will serve eventually in heaven?
By our fruits we are identified. The fruits of the fds, not 9 men, but many, have been, after almost a hundred years proven them to be the ones speaking truth on earth.
I don’t expect you to believe it, but perhaps someday. John 6:44
INQUESTOFTHETRUTH in reply to theapologeticfront 6 days ago
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The priests are all true Christians who will be “heirs of the world” with Abraham and his seed (Romans 4:13). So no, I don’t think that priests and kings will serve in heaven, but on the new earth (Matt. 5:5, Rev. 5:10)
And the FDS has proven themselves? How so? When they became bloodguilty in telling everyone that organ transplants were cannibalistic and never apologized? When they predicted that the end would come by the turn of the 20th century and never apologized?
theapologeticfront in reply to INQUESTOFTHETRUTH 6 days ago
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As far the first part of your comment I will consider that.
The 2nd part can’t be answered until you make an accounting of the blood guilt of Christendom in the murdering of hundreds of millions of people. Since you can’t make amends for those actions except by rejecting the organizations that committed them, until you reject Christendom I think you have no integrity and certainly no right to criticize others. Christendom is bringing the end of the world down upon itself.
INQUESTOFTHETRUTH in reply to theapologeticfront 5 days ago
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The accounting of the blood guilt of Christendom is simple: they were sinful and I would reject any organization that is bloodguilty and refuses to repent, much less apologize. The good thing is, I don’t believe any organization within Christendom is actually God’s sole channel of communication. So I don’t have to answer for them; in fact, i’d be right there with you rejecting most of the organizations within Christendom.
theapologeticfront in reply to INQUESTOFTHETRUTH 5 days ago
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“they were sinful” I suggest that it is “are sinful.” They haven’t shifted their doctrines to prevent the past from repeating itself.
I also think that your belief puts you in a untenable position. The Bible is clear that we are to gather together, preach together, listen to those who take the lead, appoint leadership, etc., none of which you can do by yourself. People must think that “non-denominational and independent” on the outside of a place of worship is enough to separate themselves.
INQUESTOFTHETRUTH in reply to theapologeticfront 2 days ago
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See, now you’re shifting the topic to doctrine. And even then, I have no biblical obligation to answer for Christendom. I can only be held accountable for what I believe. And you’re wrong to assert that i’m “doing it by myself.” I am a part of a local church who I worship and do ministry with. And I also listen to my elders. But this has nothing to do with the Watchtower’s bloodguilt on their former medical practices.
theapologeticfront in reply to INQUESTOFTHETRUTH 2 days ago
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Regarding past mistakes made by men now, past and future, I direct you to the many faithful men of old who made mistakes that costs 10’s of thousands of lives, like King David. They were forgiven their errors for different reasons and they didn’t have Christ’s sacrifice. Any mistakes made will be nothing when the resurrection occurs. People who voluntarily believe and follow doctrine were not murdered en masse. As “light”, knowledge is refined we are refined, a basic tenet of our faith.
INQUESTOFTHETRUTH in reply to theapologeticfront 1 day ago
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But where is the parallel between David and the leaders who advised on JW medical practices that led to death and sickness? Didn’t David repent and wasn’t he also punished? Where did the JW leaders ever apologize for their mistakes that costed lives and sickness?
theapologeticfront in reply to INQUESTOFTHETRUTH 23 hours ago
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The point about David is clear. Repeating, “made mistakes that costs 10’s of thousands of lives”
In all of this you keep ignoring that people believe willingly and not under compulsion. Just as you believe in the Trinity.
Could you give me your source for statistics concerning “cost lives and sickness?”
Following the Bible direction on blood has certainly saved many people from sickness.
Do you know the heart of man? Do you know that those folks didn’t ask for forgiveness? God will right wrong.
INQUESTOFTHETRUTH in reply to theapologeticfront 16 hours ago
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But David at least apologized for his mistakes and definitely repented. Where has the Watchtower ever apologized for their mistakes on medical policies? Are you seriously suggesting that no lives were lost or health jeopardized because of the Watchtower’s mistaken medical policies in the past? I’m amazed at how JW’s will let their leaders off the hook even on issues like this. Yet another reason why I could never be a JW apologist 🙂
theapologeticfront in reply to INQUESTOFTHETRUTH 12 hours ago
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I don’t know of any “JW apologist.” We are all Christians, so we are all ministers and defenders of the faith. I’m amazed that people think the Watchtower Society is somehow a religious institution; it’s a legal not-for-profit corporation. The ‘faithful and discreet slave” are individuals from which no apology can be demanded by men, only God. I’m suggesting you have no clue how the no-blood doctrine has effected anyone. Some may have lost their lives to the resurrection, due to their faith.
INQUESTOFTHETRUTH in reply to theapologeticfront 5 hours ago
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Your leaders shouldn’t have to apologize for their mistakes. How convenient.
theapologeticfront in reply to INQUESTOFTHETRUTH 1 second ago
MJF APOLOGETICS 
Inquestofthetruth: “People who voluntarily believe and follow doctrine were not murdered en masse”
Inquestofthetruth: “In all of this you keep ignoring that people believe willingly and not under compulsion. Just as you believe in the Trinity.”
This is not the first time I’ve heard this. It’s the “nobody made them do this, so I don’t see a fault” argument, as opposed to other life-ending events such as WWII and the extermination of many JW’s, or past wars before that.
But watchtower literature has said before that many could have renounced their JW faith and been spared what was to come, but many of the JW’s faithfully chose not to. Instead, they chose to hold fast to what they believed was true worship to God.
To be sure, no Christians–including myself–are defending Hitler and his most horrific orders. But the point is still made. Those of JW faith CHOSE to stay with what they felt was a true allegience to God….there could be no other way for them, even if a wrongful death was to come. And yet how could one say to that time and to those lives lost, “people who voluntarily believe and follow doctrine were not murdered en masse”?! They WERE absolutely murdered.
If we are to stay consistent with this reasoning, then the same has to be said of the ‘no blood’ doctrine. JW’s are told what is a biblical and true way to worship their Creator by whom they consider the faithful & discreet slave. There could be no other way for a JW who believes he or she is being taught true by the Watchtower Society. Many have followed this to the end. To say nothing of children who are too young to make a legal decision, and thus have had believing JW parents choose for them.
If the above is true, then this is no more voluntary than the choices given during WWII. And if that is true, then murder is murder.
If the above isn’t true, then it seems to make the choices made in WWII voluntary acts, and so Hitler can’t truely be held accountable. Absurd.
Actually, my last statement should be read as:
“If the above is true, then this is no more voluntary than the choices given during WWII. And if that is true, AND ‘THE NO-BLOOD’ DOCTRINE AND ‘NO ORGAN TRANSPLANTS’ ARE SUBSIQUENTLY PROVEN FALSE, then murder is murder.”
Noah, those are excellent points. It would be like a parent telling a child that they should refuse a particular life saving treatment, and then allow the child to make their own decision. Then the child dies. But later on, the parents realize that their advice was careless and incorrect. Who is the guilty party?
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In the book “Keep yourselves in God’s love”, published in 2008, The Watchtower Society says in page 78:
“Jehovah’s Witnesses recognize that ‘abstaining from . . . blood’ means not accepting blood transfusions and not donating or storing their own blood for transfusion.”
However, in the edition of The Watchtower, October 1, 1994, in page 31, it says :
“Currently a small amount of albumin is also used in injections of the synthetic hormone EPO (erythropoietin). Some Witnesses have accepted injections of EPO because it can hasten red blood cell production and so may relieve a physician of a feeling that a blood transfusion might be needed….As noted, many Witnesses have not objected to accepting an injection that contains a small quantity of albumin.”
Note that to produce EPO you need donors to get the needed quantity of albumin. But witnesses can’t donate blood. Note the hypocricy of their doctrine. The Governing Body allows witnesses to use blood fractions taken from many worldly donors but they are banned for donating blood.
Interestingly, I also noticed that in 1956 the Watchtower Society regarded “blood fractions, particularly albumin” as “under The Scriptural ban” (Awake!, September 8, page 20, 1956).